JFK Assassination: Lee harvy Oswald Dallas Police property search |
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Deputy sheriff
Walthers:
when we went to the door, what turned out to be Mrs. Paine just as soon as
we stepped on the porch, she said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you,
and we didn't have any trouble at all--we just went right on in and stared
asking her--at that time it didn't appear that her or Mrs. Oswald, or Marina,
who came up carrying one of the babies in the living room--it didn't appear that
they knew that Oswald had been arrested at all--the way they talked.
Mr. LIEBELER. How do you account for the fact that Mrs. Paine said, "Come on in,
we've been expecting you?"
Mr. WALTHERS. I don't know--to this day, I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you sure that's what she said?
Mr. WALTHERS. I know that's what she said.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Paine said that?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes, sir; she said, "Come on in, we have been expecting you."
Mr. LIEBELER. Was there anybody else there that heard her say that?
Mr. WALTHERS. I imagine all the officers on the porch did. I know Rose was
trying to show her his credentials and she just pushed the screen open and said,
"Come on in."
Detective Stovall:
At that time we told her that we wanted to search the house. We
explained to her that we did not have a search warrant but if she wanted us to
get one we would, and she said, "That won't be necessary"--for us to come right
on in, so we went on in the house and started to search out the house, and
the
part of the house that I searched was the front bedroom where Marina Oswald was
staying. There are quite a few items on the list of property I have--I believe
you have a copy of it. There are two that were taken out of that bedroom
there---a bunch of camera equipment, for one thing.
Detective Rose:
Well, I was the senior detective that was there, and so I was sort of
the spokesman for the group, I suppose, and Stovall wen into the bedroom of
Marina Oswald--Marina Oswald's bedroom, and I don't remember where Adamcik went
first, but I talked with Ruth Paine a few minutes and she told me that Marina
was there and that she was Lee Oswald's wife and that she was a citizen of
Russia, and so I called Captain Fritz on the phone and told him what I had found
out there and asked him if there was any special instructions, and he said,
"Well, ask her about her husband, ask her if her husband has a rifle."
I turned
and asked Marina, but she didn't seem to understand. She said she couldn't
understand, so Ruth Paine spoke in Russian to her and Ruth Paine also
interpreted for me, and she said that Marina said--first she said Marina said
"No," and then a minute Marina said, "Yes, he does have." So, then I talked to
Captain Fritz for a moment and hung up the phone and I asked Marina if she would
show me where his rifle was and Ruth Paine interpreted and
Marina pointed to the
garage and she took me to the garage and she pointed to a blanket that was
rolled up and laying on the floor near the wall of the garage and Ruth Paine
said, "Says that that's where his rifle is." Well, at the time I couldn't tell
whether there was one in there or not. It appeared to be--it was in sort of an
outline of a rifle.
Mr. BALL. You mean the blanket had the outline of a rifle?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; it did.
Mr. BALL. Was it tied at one end?
Mr. ROSE. Yes, sir; it was sort of rolled up, but it was flattened out from
laying down and tied near the middle, I would say, with a cord and so
I went on
and picked the blanket up, but it was empty--it didn't have the rifle in it.
JFK ASSASSINATION RIFLE GUN LEE HARVEY OSWALD.
Deputy sheriff Walthers: Mrs. Oswald couldn't speak much English and Mr. Rose was doing most of the questioning, the city officer. We were just--not actually knowing what we were looking for, just searching, and we went into the garage there and found this--I believe it was one of these things like soap comes in, a big pasteboard barrel and it had a lot of these little leaflets in it, "Freedom for Cuba" and they were gold color with black printing on them, and we found those and we also found a gray blanket with some red trim on it that had a string tied at one end that you could see the imprint of a gun, I mean where it had been wrapped in it.
Mr. STOVALL. Shortly after that, Rose came back in carrying this blanket, as
well as I remember, it was tied at one end and the other end was open.
Mr. BALL. It was tied with what kind of material?
Mr. STOVALL. It was tied with a white cord, as well as I remember.
Mr. BALL. A white what?
Mr. STOVALL. A white twine--it was thicker than a kite twine that you see or use
on kites--more like this they use for wrapping large packages and tying them and
he showed me that end, of course, he told me----
Mr. BALL. What did he tell you?
Mr. STOVALL. He told me that when he went to the garage, Marina had pointed to
the blanket there and she said something to Ruth Paine and Ruth Paine told him
that that was where Lee kept his rifle.
Deputy sheriff Walthers: Mrs. Paine got a phone number from Mrs. Oswald where you could call Lee Harvey Oswald in Oak Cliff. It was a Whitehall phone number, I believe, and they said they didn't know where he lived, but this was where they called him, and I called Sheriff Decker on the phone when I was there and gave him that number for the crisscross, so they could send some men to that house, which I think they did, but I didn't go myself.
Mr. BALL. Now, after you were there for a little while, did Michael Paine come
in?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; we had only been there a few minutes and we were in plain cars,
so I don't know whether he knew we were there. He didn't appear to know we were
there, and he walked up the sidewalk and just walked in the door without
knocking, and I was standing just around the corner talking to Ruth Paine and
she was standing in his view and he didn't see any of the officers--we were
all out of sight at that time, and he walked in and he said, "I came to
help you. Just as soon as I heard where it happened, I knew you would need some
help."
Then he apparently saw us and then he spoke to us.
Deputy sheriff
Walthers:
this Michael Paine or Mitchell Paine, whichever you call it, came home and I
had understood from Mrs. Paine already that they weren't living together, that
they were separated and he was supposed to be living in Grand Prairie and when
he showed up I asked him what was his object in coming home. He said--well,
after he had heard about the President's getting shot, he just decided he would
take off and come home, and he arrived there while we were there.
Mr. LIEBELER. This was already after the time Oswald had been arrested, of
course?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Because you had actually helped arrest Oswald at the Texas
Theatre?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And what time was it approximately, would you be able to give us
that?
Mr. WALTHERS. Oh, man--I couldn't tell you; I'm sorry.
Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald was arrested about what time---it must have been around
close to 2 o'clock or 1:30?
Mr. WALTHERS. It was between 1:30 and 2 o'clock. This wasn't his getting off
time, I remember him saying he had taken off and he had worked at Bell
Helicopter.
Mr. LIEBELER. It's perfectly possible, however, that he could have heard about
Oswald having been arrested in connection with the Officer Tippit shooting?
Mr. WALTHERS.
But he didn't say anything about that when he came in.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did he say?
Mr. WALTHERS. I didn't ask him, of course, if he knew he had been arrested.
I
asked him if he knew Oswald and he said, "Yes"; he had known him. We were
standing, I remember, on each side of the ironing board when I talked to him and
he said "Yes," he had known him and I said, "How does the guy think, what is
he, what does he do?" He said, "He's a Communist. He is very communistic minded.
He believes in it." And he says, "He used to try to convince me it was a good
thing," and he says, "I don't believe in it."
And our conversation didn't go too
far. It was just a matter of talk about Oswald and what he had to say about him
being a Communist
***
Mr. BALL. I'll go into that later, and this was the list that was made up by
you and Rose and two FBI agents the next day at the police department?
Mr. STOVALL. Yes.
***
They were all put in the cars and we took them to Capt. Will Fritz' office along
with the stuff we had confiscated, the files and the blanket and the other
stuff, and I turned them over to Captain Fritz and left them and went back to my
station.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was in these file cabinets?
Mr. WALTHERS. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a
letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what
it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that
this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he
writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and
so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have been advised that
some story has developed that at some
point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards
that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind,
but you don't remember seeing any of them?
Mr. WALTHERS. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it.
Mr. LIEBELER. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you
got out there or anything like that?
Mr. WALTHERS. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them
contained, I don't know myself to this day.
Mr. LIEBELER. As I was sitting here listening to your story, I could see where
that story might have come from--you mentioned the "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets
that were in a barrel.
Mr. WALTHERS. That's right--we got a stack of them out of that barrel, but
things get all twisted around
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Dealey Plaza Witnesses PAGES 1 - 8 | The Great Escape PAGES 1 - 4 | ||||
1
Presidential Threats 2 wittiness in the motorcade 3 wittiness in the motorcade 4 Gordon Arnold was he there |
5
shots book dep / knoll 6 more plaza wittiness 7 more plaza wittiness 8 officers / Oswald encounter |
1
Oswald's Bus and Cab ride. 2 Oswald at boarding house, police car honks horn outside 3 THE SHOOTING OF OFFICER TIPPIT 4 The capture and arrest of Oswald. |
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